JonE5

I need to swap out my rear pads on a SV650. Does anybody recommend any specific brands or type (semi metallic, Carbon Kevlar).

lil_schmitty

Who needs brakes, all they do is slow you down!

Mikey

Go see Dennis about his Vesra pads. Got a set on my front and have been thoroughly impressed with them. Took very little time for them to seat in and have really good lever feel with gobs of stopping power.

ConradM

The cheapest ones you can find is what I suggest. You're rear brakes do so little of the work it really shouldn't matter what pads you use.

Alien

For the rear brakes on street bikes, I'm with Conrad. Whatever you have or can find cheap.

I love EBC-HH pads on the front for everyday riding.

JonE5

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, I found some cheap ones on Ebay I was going to get.

Sethg1981

Id get decent ones. You can use the rear brake to slow the bike with out changing the trail of your bike. If I have to brake into a corner I would rather use the tire with the most contact patch. Unless its a panic stop. By that time I have already passed out and crapped my pants.

ConradM

You should always use front brake when trail braking to load the front tire. You just have to be smooth releasing the brake mid corner while leaned over. Can't just let go or the front end will pogo.

I've heard that people like rear brake to scrub speed mid corner but I still prefer front brake for that too.

I pretty much only use my rear brake in the city at stop signs and intersections.

ConradM

Good read on Trail braking -

http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tip...ing/index.html

Sethg1981

I use both brakes. It just feels more solid for me. I dont just ride the rear. It started along time ago on dirtbikes.

EDIT: sorry man didnt mean to steal the thread.

Mikey

My worthless bit of is save money on things like grips and windscreens, but when it comes to vital components that either drive or stop your motorcycle....go with qaulity over price. Saving $12 dollars means nothing if you yard sale your bike all over the road. Take it for what its worth.

BuellCru

I rarely brake into a corner, it's usually just ease off and back on for me. If I'm going hard into a corner I usually downshift on decel and then steady throttle to the last 1/4 of the turn.

ConradM

Usually when I trail brake, it's because I misjudged the corner speed of the rider in front of me and I'm about to smack into him.

But yeah generally I'm not getting into the corners that hot.

That being said, everyone "should" learn and know how to use front brake on corner entry.

BuellCru

You must be getting more comfortable. When I rode with you the last comment you made before we split was, "DAMN, I don't know if I can do that again anytime soon".

Gem STate ST

Not much help here as with 53k on the ST only one brake change and none on the Falco at 27k.

ConradM

Yeah man that was way back in feb. I've put almost 5000 miles on my bike since then.

Oh and and mind you, that was my 4th day back on a bike in 12 years.

fittyone

Trail breaking into a corner is personal preference and depends on what your trying to accomplish with the brakes. If you ride a bike that has a harsh transition when the throttle is opened like I do, then dragging the rear brake smooths and settles the bike when the throttle is opened. I totally drag the rear brake through the corner to smooth out the touchy throttle. If your trying to cut speed the front and rear together gets the best result.
Use the best parts in your brakes that you can afford.

BuellCru

Right on, it's good to see confidence in your own abilities come back.

ConradM

I disagree. It's a tool that everyone should have in their bag of tricks.

I disagree again. If you're hot enough in a corner that you need to trail brake then the last thing you want to do is mess with the rear brake while leaning over. More likely than not you're engine braking anyway which has pretty much the same effect as what little you would be using the rear brake.

Pimpit

Rear brake is also nice with a passenger. Not only does it help with stopping the extra weight, but thanks to (I believe) Ryan I learned hitting the rear first also reduces the force of throwing your passenger forward. Tried it, and it makes a huge difference.

ConradM

Oh no doubt. I use my rear brake in town all the time, just not in the twisties.

Pimpit

I use it no matter where I am if I have a passenger (rarely riding in town). After riding nothing but a cruiser for a few months it became habit to hit the rear on anything that wasn't a quick stop. Ended up with the same habit again after mostly riding 2up this season. Also important for wheelies to lol

JonE5

Haha. I'm comfortable with braking with either brake around corners. I do however tend to stick with the rear brake if brakes are required. I do (like most) slow down before the turns and if anything accelerate th6rough the turn or at least maintain speed. When riding in town i use both brakes. I think ultimately it just comes down the preference of the rider as well as comfort level

I'm thinking I will just get some cheaper brakes for my bike. Thanks for the help guys!

Liteone

Physics says your wrong.
Applying a force @ the wheel puts the stresses on suspension completely differnt than applying forces 3 feet away @ the front sprocket.

ConradM

What? A wheel slowed is a wheel slowed no matter what means you're using.

Pimpit

Actually no. When I chop my throttle (aka engine brake) the front dives down. When I hit the rear brake, not so much.


Also, food for thought. You have a pivot point on the bike between the 2 sprockets (where your swing arm attaches). When you accelerate hard the chain pulls, causing the tension to bringing the swingarm up closer to the tail and causing the rear to squat (way more noticeable on a stretched bike). Taking that pull away by taking away the tension, or reversing the tension, causes the chain to pull it's tension on the other side of the rear axle, pulling the swingarm down, and away from the tail, causing the front to feel like it is diving.

This is just my theory, and my best attempt to explain it at 2am. But think about hard engine braking, and the stance your bike takes. Also think about the stance your bike takes when you are under hard acceleration.

Cider

Pretty good theory. BTW, the rear brake also slows down rebound, which might be helping the dive as well.

ConradM

You're saying bikes squat under acceleration? You sure about that?

and why would your bike nose dive when you chop the throttle but not when you use rear brake? Makes no sense at all.

Sethg1981

Slowing with the rear brake will help settle the chassis and reduce front end dive because of the rear suspensions slow rebound because of the brakes torque reaction on the swing arm. You wouldnt get that with engine braking.

Pimpit

Yes the rear squats under had acceleration. Soften your rear suspension a little and you will notice it a lot. Same as with a rear wheel drive car. Like I said in my post before, really noticeable when extended (because the suspension is softer). You ever watch drag racing? Next time pay attention to the rear of a bike. Actually, the best launch is when the back squats a couple inches, and the front wheel comes up about 3inches (learned that from bungeeguy). We will be at FB tomorrow if you would like to see it up close.

As for the nose dive, even in a car, you go from hard acceleration to no power it falls on it's face. If you read my OP again I kind of hit on that with this:
Taking that pull away by taking away the tension, or reversing the tension, causes the chain to pull it's tension on the other side of the rear axle, pulling the swingarm down, and away from the tail, causing the front to feel like it is diving.
Like I said, just a theory, but next time you are out in a lone stretch of highway try punching the throttle, and see if you don't feel it squat ( from about a steady 3k straight to WOP until about a grand before redline) and then once you have it up there, also chop your throttle completely and see if the front doesn't dive a little.

Pimpit

Also with RB you are biting from the rear (mounted on swingarm) so the swingarm absorbs the bite. With EB you are biting from the front (counter shaft sprocket) which is in front of that pivot I was referring to, so the pull of the motor slowing down has a different effect behind that pivot. Harder to explain via a message board. Meet up with me in person and I can explain better. It is kinda like taking your rwd car and throwing it in reverse on while driving down the freeway. But yes, you get squat under hard acceleration, and dive on hard EB

ConradM

But if were still talking about trail braking you want the front end to dive. Compressed front end = quicker steering.

ConradM

Pimpit, you should watch totw and I'll just leave it at that.

Liteone

Pimits pretty much right on the explanation. Differnt points of tension cause differnt things to happen. Totw, the last time I read it. Didn't get into the physics of rear braking other than to say you need to get the chassis weight bias back to the rear wheel.

Draw a picture of swing ARM chain wheel and brakes. Make little arrows of the tensions and it may become clear.

ConradM

Totw explains that the rear end rises under acceleration.

ConradM

I have totw 1 and 2 on my kindle so I just checked.

In totw 2 on page 14 they explain that the rear end rises under acceleration.

Sethg1981

It depends on what your trying to do with trail braking. You can steer your bike with either brake. Front=a tighter line. rear will bring the ass end down giving the bike more trail and opening the line. Say your coming around a turn and come up on sand along the white line and need to move. Keeping the throttle at a maintenance throttle (just barely open) you can use the rear brake lightly to set the rear end opening the geometry of the bike and widening the line.

check out Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track and sport bike suspension tuning. they really get into the dynamics of using both brakes and how they affect the bike in many ways.

Also Honda developed a thumb break for Mick Doohan when he hurt his foot. Im thinking that wouldnt have happened if the rear brake wasnt a useful tool.

But like somebody mentioned every rider is different. On the street what ever feels good for you will bring confidence and that will help a rider unless the riders confidence comes from the feel of just plain bad riding. Like pinning the throttle at full lean, crossed up, not looking where you want to go and in flip flops and shorts.

I just finished the first book. Anybody is welcome to borrow it. It really gets into alot more then totw. It has a few conflicting ways about going about things. both are written by very reputable riders. Just shoot me a PM.

Sethg1981

Hes right. Youtube any bike dyno run. You can see the rear rise.

Ryan@IdahoSportBikes

Galfer HH pads!

Cider

I loaned my copy of that book out, so I can't check it, but I got coaching from the author several times at the track and he never talked about using the rear brake to take a wider line. He said he used the rear to settle the suspension and slow down the rebound.

I found a use for the rear brake when I got pinched off T1 into the dirt at 90mph.