CBRF2Old

Go for it Hoz! We will start looking for something for you. Maybe a Cafe'd V65 Sabre?

FastGas

Sweet, got it to run. Turns out the battery I had been using was a little on the low side. It's too bad the rain started just as it sputtered to life.
I wired the blinkers correctly, however once engage, all four blink together . I also discovered the horn does not work.

CBRF2Old

I didn't even think about the battery. I had the same problem with the BadAscot after hauling it back from MMP and it wouldn't start. Would turn over good, but wouldn't fire. Put a new battery in it and it fired right up. The old battery will fire the GoodAscot though, go figure.

Sounds like another trip to the wiring diagram is in order...and who needs the wimpy horn on one of these, I can yell louder.

FastGas

Could it be a load issue? I know the wires are connected properly. Puzzling that they all flash together whenever the switch is activated.
Also noticed (duh) that this isn't exactly a rev-happy bike. It came from sea-level so perhaps jetting is more to blame than engine design. I'm going to take it out tomorrow and fart around the storage complex. I'm sure it has plenty of cobwebs that need to blown out after sitting for 20 years.

FastGas

Here's a little vid, the metallic clang was a wrench falling.

CBRF2Old

Thanks for pointing out the wrench falling, when I heard it I thought that it was engine related.
Rev'ing one of these when it is in neutral is usually like that, your not going to get a fast acceleration of RPM's. When you do it under load, the torque will surprise you.
You might want to disconnect all of the turn signals and start with a multimeter to check all of the connectors to see what they are doing.

Hozhead

When I swapped gauges on my Husky and used a single bulb to indicate that the turn signals were on, I had to put a diode on each leg of the wiring to keep the current from feeding through the bulb and to the other side. Perhaps you've got the + wires for the two sides connected somewhere along the way.

FastGas

Took it both out today and several steps back. The blinkers no longer blink together, in fact, they remain solid when activated and are very, very dim. I checked the rear connections and everything matches with the front. I guess the next step is manually tracing each wire through the master loom, inspecting for worn jackets.
The horn turned out to be junk, wouldn't work even when connected directly to a 12v source. It looks like it might be rusted internally. Easy enough to fix.
As for the ride, well, even for a 500 it's pretty slow. It builds revs slowly and the clutch has to be slipped quite a bit to avoid stalling when pulling away from a stop. It builds revs slowly at WOT on flat ground but won't rev beyond 7k. It feels like a load of bricks. On the plus side, the front brake works GREAT as is, I wonder if it will lock with the HH pads.

Hey CBR, do you have the service manual for the bike? Any chance you could tell me what the float height is supposed to be as measured with a caliper? The only thing I didn't try is flipping the petcock to prime/res, perhaps I have a dirty fuel filter? It revs fine, albeit slowly, to redline without any load.

FastGas

here's a shadow 500 for reference.

notice how much faster it builds revs

CBRF2Old

Sounds like a carb problem. When did you clean/rebuild them?
Blinkers sound like they might be a bad ground. Do you still have the stock ones to plug in and see what they do? If not, too bad you aren't closer to Boise, I have a set that you could test with.

Here is part of the page from the manual for the float level.

Attached Images

Float level.JPG (44.8 KB, 6 views)

turbolq4

after watching your video it sounds like its only running on one hole, im with Karl, make sure the carbs are clean

FastGas

I don't have the stock blinkers, they were cut off/removed when I got it.
Thanks for the image, I will pull and recheck them. I was hunting around on the yahoo group and found that the two needles are not the same. I had a carbs apart at the very beginning in order to address a stuck front float and a clogged pilot jet. I replaced the jet completely instead of fumbling with a wire small enough to fit through the tiny 112 orifice.
The shadow I posted sounds a bit different as it has straight pipes without a crossover. The ascot uses a 2-1 with a large resonator.

CBRF2Old

When you pull the carbs apart, check to make sure that the jets are the right size in the correct carbs. The front is jetted different than the rear. Maybe they got swapped.
Front Main Jet #112 Rear #122
Slow jet #38 (CA Front #38 Rear #40)
If the pilot screws are accessible (cover has been drilled out), you might want to start with an initial setting of 2-1/4 turns out on both front and rear.

Also, have you checked the diaphragms for holes?

FastGas

Diaphragms are clean. I will check the carbs as I've probably mixed the jets up. I'm also going to try to wire some resistors in to the signals to get them to work. If that fails, well, I guess I'll shell out another $20 for a set of bulb-based units.
We're going to have a few days in the 60s here this week and I'd love to get one of these out of the locker and on the road:

CBRF2Old

Locker?, that looks more like a bunker. You are doing all your work out of a storage unit? That would suck. Although I knew a guy that did a blown camaro in the same setup. And I thought that my shop was small.
Is that the ZX12r? As much as I love the Ascots, I would spark that up and ride!

FastGas

Yep, these two winter in a storage locker. My other two bikes are tucked in the garage.
I'm putting the ZX back together. The motor was at Ace Performance for the winter getting a few upgrades

FastGas

All the brake parts came in today and will be installed tomorrow.

Hopefully I can spend the rest of the day on the Ducati.

FastGas

I guess I've been riding my enduro too long as you are correct sir! The front coil is no longer operational I just bought a working replacement on ebay

FastGas

I guess I should have tested the CDI before whipping out my check book. New coil arrived and installed, still no spark. I'll try pulling the rear coil and testing both of the original and new front units. If it is the CDI, when they were available they were a hefty $350! Here are the units in question:

turbolq4

make sure the coils have a good ground, i saw an Ascot on craigslist the other day, is it yours?

http://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/1652111563.html

Mikey

no he actually lives in Salt Lake, but he may want that Ascot for parts.

turbolq4

thats way too nice to part out!!!

CBRF2Old

Pretty sure that is the Ascot not far from where I live. I have seen it several times but have never had a chance to talk to the owner.
That would be a spendy "parts" bike...

FastGas

I switched the CDIs around today but even using the one I know works I'm still not getting spark on the front jug. I tested all three coils and they work on the rear jug. The front ground looks good. The CDIs are the same PN so I assume it isn't a compatibility issue.....

CBRF2Old

Have you pulled a plug (or both) out of the front jug and checked them to see if there is a spark at all?
I'll take a look at my manual when I get home to see if it says anything else about testing.
Could it be a wiring problem where the CDI units connect?

BTW, if anyone is interested, that "87" Ascot for sale is either an 83 or 84. Those are the only years that they made the VT500FT.

FastGas

The wiring looks good, however I haven't removed the unit completely yet. It should work just fine by switching the CDI plugs but no such luck.

CBRF2Old

I just checked the manual and didn't find anything other than the testing procedure for the coils. The two boxes that you refer to as the CDI are referred to as the "spark units". I thought that the CDI was actually the finned device that resides outside of the battery. Sorry, didn't have a whole lot of time to dig into the manual.
Are you sure that this isn't a carb problem?
Check ebay, the other day there was a shop manual for sale. These Honda manuals are far better than the aftermarket stuff.

FastGas

That's the regulator/rectifier.
I pulled the carbs and everything is in order. It's most definitely a spark issue. I'll try switching CDIs again and inspecting every inch of loom connected to them. This silly bike had better be worth the effort, I'm starting to

FastGas

Found this on the yahoo group:
No Spark on ONE Cylinder?
No Problem!

If you lose the spark to one cylinder on your Ascot, it is usually pretty easy to troubleshoot. We're not talking "it doesn't seem to be firing" but that you know that there is no spark happening on either the front or rear cylinder but not both. The Ascot has a pretty reliable ignition system. Other than the plugs themselves, think Coils, Spark boxes, and Pulse generators (pickup).
Under the seat there are two identical connectors. Each of these goes to a sensor, spark box, and coil. You can SWAP the connectors and it swaps the spark boxes between front and back. If you know one cylinder has no spark and you swap these two identical connectors, look for the problem to move to the other cylinder. If it does, the problem is probably the spark box.

The spark boxes are hidden behind the battery. Honda only sold them by pairs last time I needed one, so look for a used unit if you can.
There's the little devils! I've had one of the boxes apart, and they're really pretty low tech. Inside that plastic box is a pretty crappy little printed circuit board. It could be worth your time to disassemble the box, slide out the card, and check all the solder connections and components before ordering a NEW PAIR. You may save yourself a couple of hundred bucks!

If the problem isn't identified by the first test, pull the tank and coil cover. Swap the pair of SMALL wires that go into the end of the coil between the two coils. If the problem is a bad coil, the problem will NOT switch cylinders. Unlike the above test, the bike will NOT run on one cylinder with these wires swapped. Two 10mm bolts hold each coil to the mount, an easy replacement. If you see anything like a crack or bulging on the coils replace them even if they're working now because they'll be dead soon. There are some specs for checking the ohms of the primary and secondary also in the manual, so double check before you spring for a new coil!

So the third likely (and the most trouble to fix) suspect are the pulse generators. They are mounted inside the clutch cover and tell the spark when to go off. The outside connector is just a little above the coils, though both the manuals may mislead you. I spent a lot of time looking for it where the manual shows, but it's really up here!

I managed to find the connector by following the sort of "woven" insulation up from the front of the clutch case. The color coding on the pulse generator wires were NOT what they say in the manual, but it was right on the chassis wires leading to it.

The resistance between the wires of each pair (front and rear) should be 430-530 ohms (480 nominal). My problem was the front pickup - infinite (open) resistance. So I got to rip into the primary side of the engine to replace the pickup. Luckily, I had a parts bike - but that meant that I had to do all the disassembly twice. The Honda shop manual and Clymer manuals are both pretty good about disassembly order which includes the exhaust system, brake pedal, unboltable frame section, and then the primary cover. It's not easy, but not impossible. Before I removed the pickup assembly, I tapped into the wires by the pickup and ohmed out the circuit to each pin of the connector and through the pickup as well - hoping that it was just a broken wire. Nope, open pickup.

The only thing that took extra time was removing the old pickup harness and threading in the new one between the frame and upper radiator hose. I ended up removing the upper radiator mounting screw which allowed me to push the connectors through the gap.

The symptom of my pickup going out was progressed over about two weeks. First one cylinder would randomly cut out and come back, then it would cut out after about a mile of riding and only come back after the engine had cooled a little. Finally it died all together, and made it possible to troubleshoot the problem. If it stayed as an intermittent problem, I might still be scratching my head over it!
That was enough to make that 250cc single back into a V-twin again. I just felt lucky that I had a two cylinder motorcycle with two independent ignition systems to get me home.

I'm a little confused as when I switch igniters, I don't get spark on EITHER jug...

CBRF2Old

Almost sounds like you two things going on. One bad igniter, one bad pulse generator? Don't know, this is untraveled territory for me.

FastGas

I'm thinking the same thing. Unfortunately the pulse generators are coupled together, are $75 from Honda, and are buried behind the right case cover . I'll never pay retail for a Honda motorcycle on account of foolishness like this.

FastGas

Found a little time to play this weekend, turns out it's just one of the CDIs This thing will be up and running in no time.

CBRF2Old

Nice!

I received the steering head bearings/fork seals/progressive springs for mine yesterday. Now just need to get busy and install them!

FastGas

new spark boxes arrived today from Canada. Hopefully I'll be firing on both cylinders tomorrow. I'm also going to invest in a cheapo HFT soldering iron, heat gun, and some resistors to get the blinkers working.

FastGas

I put the new boxes on this morning and the little beast fired right up and runs great!
I'm going to find a proper blinker relay in lieu of soldering resistors. Autozone has quite the selection, I just don't know which one I need. Any suggestions?
I'm also very impressed with the brake setup. The lever is rock-hard and the new pads bite nicely. I can only imagine how much better they will be in another 100 miles.

CBRF2Old

Very nice! Good thing you didn't have to tear into the motor to fix that.
I don't know anything about the blinker relay, I am still running bulbs...

I'll have to looking the brake swap that you did and the stainless lines. Having only one front rotor means that it needs to work harder.

FastGas

I asked around and found that the Blazer EP35 is the correct unit for the job. However after splicing the new relay in, all four signals illuminate and remain solid and dim when either direction is activated.

CBRF2Old

At least the bike is running good. You can use hand signals to turn. Beats the crap out of peddling with your feet to keep it moving while your blinkers are purring away "I am turning right"...sometime.

Seriously though, not sure what the issue is.
Are you planning on going to WSBK at Miller? Or the track day afterwards? Bring the Ascot over and we can tinker on it.

liltribute

If you have the old relay, you can take it into Import Part Specialists on Maple Grove and Overland. They helped me out with one of my relays.

FastGas

I wouldn't have a problem with that approach, however it needs to pass UT inspection, which requires working signals . I've been told there are two models of EP35, one for general use, the other specifically for use with LEDs. More leg work...
I'm also finishing up refreshing the black plastics, however I'm having a tough time with fish-eye on the radiator cover. I've cleaned with brake-cleaner, Dupont prep spray, and old fashion soap and water with no success, fish eyes every time.