Gem STate ST

Here is pretty good video for those that don't quite understand how it works.

ckholloway

Great video.
The first time I ever heard that (years ago) I told the guy he was nuts. When I was wrong I it amazed me and changed the way I rode from then on.
great info for new riders that have never heard it or seen it.

Vegasrider

It's amazing lot of riders don't even know what countersteering is, and don't even realize that they have been doing it. It's always interesting trying to explain what and how countersteering is to a new rider. But after they do it, they get it.

Bikerlibre

Nice video Gem.

It sounds wacky for sure and initiating a left hand turn by turning the handlebar to the right isn't often thought about because we all know how to ride a bike by rote.

It's definitely fundamental to steering mechanics though and needs to be learned by everyone who rides. Then, I find countersteering needs to be kept in the forefront of my mind while riding because it is a technique that needs practice and then, an ongoing awareness of how to use it. It makes cornering fun! For accident avoidance, it's required.....in a panic situation, you don't want your reactions to be backward and end up steering into the direction of avoidance by not understanding the countersteering concept.

Thanks again Gem

amsoilguy

I didn't know about the concept but apparently did it when riding years ago. After taking the STAR course it really became clear.

Bluesrider1

Used to know a guy, maybe 30 years ago now, who would argue endlessly that all he had to do to turn his motorcycle was lean in the direction he wanted to go and that countersteering absotively, posilutely did nothing to turn a bike.
A few of us finally convinced him that if he was SOOOOO right then there should be no problem with us wrapping the front end of his bike with bungees so he couldn't turn the handle bars.
One sunny Sunday afternoon about 3-4 of us watched as he rode the entire length of a parking lot before slamming on the brakes to keep from jumping the curb.
Hmmmm........didn't turn so good that time, did it?

I wish I had a video of THAT!!

turbolq4

I enjoy counter steering but have noticed that at very high speed the bike seems to revert back to actually turning the direction you want to go. This may be just me but it happened several times. 130+ indicated speed.

ConradM

You mean turning the direction the wheel is pointing in? Like you have an opposite counter steering effect?

turbolq4

I mean that you countersteer just like normal until it really gets haulin some ass. Then the bike liked to have its hair....er bars manhandled in the direction of the turn. Am I the only one that has experienced this?

ConradM

Yes. It's literally impossible to turn effectively without counter steering. Especially at a high rate of speed. The faster you go, the more force you have to use to counter steer.

Check out this picture of Ben Spies. I'd guess he's slowing down from well over 100mph in this pic. Note which direction the wheel is facing.

theduckllr

Turn right to go left? Yeah, right. Stupid old codger.....

ConradM

Cider

That's a rear wheel slide.

ConradM

Could be the beginnings of one, either way he's counter steering.

Cider

Agreed, but backing it in isn't a practical example of counter steering

Tilos

Josh Brooks
Cadwell Park
countersteer...midair
http://s781.photobucket.com/albums/y...adwellPark.mp4

Cider

Fast Freddie demonstrates counter-counter-steering.

turbolq4

Im not a newb and I know how to ride. I know the difference between countersteering and turning like its a fourwheeler. It still wanted alot of lean angle but didnt respond to countersteering much.

ConradM

I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying. You can't effectively turn a motorcycle @ 130 mph without counter steering. Now once you're on your line its a different story. You could technically take your hands of mid corner and the bike would continue along its path.

But as far as initiating a turn at speed, its all counter steering.

turbolq4

theduckllr

Speaking of Freddy: His simple explanaition is that when you countersteer, you move the tires out from underneath the bike, initiating the lean. Countersteering happens only for a split second until the desired lean angle is achieved, at which point we straighten out the bars and let the lean carry the bike around the corner. Best demonstrated in a chicane.

Bluesrider1

One thing that I have noticed about most countersteering discussions is that riders pretty much try to over-think the concept.
It's not that difficult to understand if y'all just keep it simple.
With a motorcycle, once speeds get above a few miles per hour, the front wheel acts as a gyroscope.
Simple, like a kid's toy.
And in order to turn a motorcycle, or hold a motorcycle on it's line in a corner, a rider MUST manipulate the gyroscopic forces of the spinning front wheel.
It's simple physics, just as simple as that little kid's toy.
If you turn a bike, keep it leaned over on your line in a corner, or stand it up at the exit, YOU ARE USING COUNTERSTEERING!!
Y'all can debate it 'till the sun comes up, but in the end, there's no changing the laws of physics.
And if you aren't feeling it, sensing it, doing it, every time you turn your bike, well then, you're just not paying attention.
Using countersteering to control a motorcycle in ALL aspects of turning and cornering is a learned skill.
It take practice and awareness (and more practice) and once a rider can internalize the concept and instinctively use the simple laws of physics to control their motorcycle, they are able to ride quick, and safe, and fast.
We all already do it.....all the time.
Otherwise we would ALL fall off of the road.

turbolq4

I do use it, alot. I was just saying that at high speed my bike seemed to not respond to it. This was ALL I was trying to say. Not that I dont use it or dont know what it is. I COUNTERSTEER!!!!!!!! Jesus H.

ConradM

So at high speed how do you corner?

turbolq4

Ahead of you

ConradM

Why u mad? I'm curious...

Bluesrider1

Ummmmm.......

"We all already do it.....all the time.
Otherwise we would ALL fall off of the road."

Yup....that is what he said. (not Jesus H.)