ConradM

Same. I think it's a good instructional bit, but it's not simulating an emergency stop.

I'll leave it at this as a general statement. If you're going to use the rear brake in an emergency, then get real good at it. Because I've seen it do more harm than good.

BuellCru

I believe two things with this interaction between you two.

1. Your clutch should be adjusted to fully disengage with a 2 finger grip for easy of shifting in any situation. The only time the 4 finger method should be used is during a complete stop.

2. The brake should be adjusted to fully engage with 2 fingers at any time for braking under any circumstance.

khartung

Makes sense to me...not four fingers that is. The only reason why I would use four fingers on a clutch if if my hand was so freakin tired and I couldn't do it with two. But I'm used to keeping two fingers on both at all times on my dirt bike anyway, for fast action, feathering, etc. And I never even pull the clutch in all the way on my dirt anyway...NO TIME! I know nothing about street bikes through. I only do these things because it give me more control, and I am a control freak. LOL Interesting topic though.

BuellCru

On a side note I've lived by this motto while riding.

"The only thing ever worthy of four fingers was a SMOKING HOT high school girlfriend I had."

So from there on out it was two fingers for anything I was planning on riding.

theduckllr

http://msf-usa.org/downloads/Street_..._Tips_2010.pdf

theduckllr

Exactly. I too started riding dirt bikes long before I rode street bikes, and using 4 on the levers was a great way to go off and F$*&^ yourself up out on the trail. Feathering the clutch is big deal if you are on a 125 or 250cc 2smoker. Period. Not holding onto the bars with at least a couple of fingers is a great way for them to get ripped out of your hands too. Not doing the same on a street bike baffles me.

khartung

Cool. It basically follow most of the principles in the Idaho Motorcycle Manual, except it is much more entertaining and cuts to the chase! Oh, and there is no section on BAC.

theduckllr

http://msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl...gename=Library

Lots more where that came from...

khartung

BTW, I think your psycho avitar would be much more effective if the mallard duck were replaced with that Aflac duck. Ha!

theduckllr

I would, but their lawyers warned me.... something about brand infringment, or some shit.

MissKaos

I think that I quoted your uncalled for comment when I responded. You would do well with reading in sarcasm into my posts.

MissKaos

I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with riding style. STARS teaches people to use all fingers to cover the clutch. ART course teaches two fingers. I think it has to do with how you're riding....street cruisers at a leisurely pace versus canyon carving / track. I'm only saying this because the type of instruction that you get in both of the courses are very different - as are the riding styles.

I had an ART instructor mention to me that it was obvious that I was STARS taught because I was pretty by the book (and he promptly deprogrammed me).

Vegasrider

You said it, Superbike school. You don't have first time riders attending that class. Everyone knows how to ride. I never said using two fingers is bad. Motocross uses two fingers.

But for a new rider, they are essentially learning how to apply a new technique using muscles that they may or maynot be use to using, therefore using four fingers offers them the easiest and best results. It's not uncommon to see a lot of riders struggle to even squeeze in the clutch using all four fingers, so how would you expect them to do with only two? Once again, we are talking about first time riders or with very little riding experience. We are trying to develope muscle memory so that they can apply utilizing the clutch and brake properly. It takes much more finesse to use two fingers than four, and until they grasp that finesse, four is the best way so we can move onto developing other skills.

In the event that I come across a rider who has obviosly ridden before and use two fingers, I never coach them to using four. If they can show me that they can perform the task of clutch control and braking with two fingers rather than four, I leave it alone. And in the case with the OP coming from dirt, I'm sure that if he uses two fingers, he will be fine. I don't know what the circumstances were with the other RC in Merridian, but if you were already use to using two, and you were able to control the bike, he shouldn't penalize you.

Even though your intentions and heart are in the right place to teach a new rider how to ride, a lot of experienced riders forget that they are beginners. What works for an experienced rider may not be the best and easiest way, and most importantly may not offer the safest way to learn. We are talking about learning basic fundamentals. Even after 3 hours on the saddle, many if not all beginning riders return the next morning sore. Now how and the heck is that possible? You have to put yourself in their position, and that's not that easy to do.

Hope that helped.

theduckllr

It did indeed. I was hoping for a common sense reasoning there. Also, you cleared up why I call MSF instructor in Meridian "Dickhead". I guess he shoulda let it go.

ConradM

Yeah, I didn't get any grief for using one or two fingers on the brake in the stars class. They didn't even say anything when I didn't really slow down for the cornering exercises.

Abflyboy

I belive you (OP) are probably experienced enough to know how to use the conrols. I had been riding for over 20 years, lots of street but mostly dirt, before I took the STARZ course. I gained a LOT of useful information from that. Mostly traffic awareness, lane positioning, etc. And it qualified for the skills assesment. Money well spent for me. As far as learning the limits of my bike, I invested in track time which has made me a MUCH better rider on the street. Not because I'm a asshat and do stupid stuff all the time, but because I know what my bike is and is not capable of doing.

My vote, do the STARZ Basic II class and get the 'M' on your license, and go do some track days. Being a member of BRN gets you a discount with APEX trackdays too!

khartung

Speaking of 2 vs. 4 fingers and the clutch, I have question. On my dirt bike I almost always have 1-2 fingers on the clutch, for obvious reasons given that genre of riding. And with the dirt bike I never pull in the clutch all of the way...and that isn't even possible anyway, because when you have your other fingers wrapped around the grip, you can't pull it in all of the way. So I've been experimenting with clutch techniques with my street bike, and I observed the same thing...I can't pull the clutch in all of the way using only 2 fingers, unless I ungrip my other fingers. So, do any of you adjust your clutch so that it engages with a shorter pull in distance? Can you clutch a street bike like a dirt bike by pulling it in only partially? Just seems like it isn't as smooth.

theduckllr

Yup. I like mine to engage near the end, not at the bars.

Gem STate ST

Also a lot of FI bikes have snatchiness from too much freeplay in the throttle cable.I always adjusted mine for almost no freeplay.

khartung

Well, guys, I bought this bike, got my permit, and passed my skills test yesterday all in a week's time...checked out of the DMV this morning...the test was fairly easy and fun. I think I'm going to get my own cones and do that on my neighborhood street for kicks.

ConradM

Awesome man.

Vegasrider

I'd figure you would pass the skills test based on your riding experience from dirt. Just remember now you will have to deal with the traffic, many who don't belong on the roads from the first place. It's pretty much more mental than physical at this point so you better learn how to anticipate. Welcome to the real world. You may want to replace the stock horn and get yourself a louder horn.

khartung

And to boot, some asshole already stopped suddenly in front of me on Chinden and I had to break then swerve around him to avoid hitting him. Good practice, I guess.

ConradM

Yup, leave yourself a nice cushion so you have room to stop. Generally, its a good idea to be moving through traffic, not with it. Try not to sit behind or next to cars.

khartung

How do you measure whether you clutch is adjusted that it is fully engaged with a 2 finger pull in? Wouldn't repair shops do this? I just reached 400 miles on my bike and had it serviced today...I noticed they adjusted my clutch so that it was angled more downward, which was sort of annoying.

alanj490

That's better for when you stand up on the pegs while riding the street

theduckllr

I do that all the time.... although I do ride a big ole dirt bike thingy.

This1Affliction

The only problem I had with the skills test is that most of it is completely useless in the real world. The u-turn and cone weave....Maybe its just a test of motorcycle dexterity. I would say that street/in-traffic experience was the most valuable for me.

theduckllr

... Well, it IS called a SKILLS TEST....