psycon

Gen. James Amos, the assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, told CNN that commanders are trying to drill down on what "we need to do to help our Marines survive on these sport bikes."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/mar...les/index.html

Badbooze

Interresting video.

shadow d hedgehog

This is expected, after all the first bike clubs in the US were started by vets returning from WWII. Your body gets used to and dependent on the adrenalin and after you are out, you have to get it from somewhere. Bring on the bikes.

As for how to help the services reduce bike fatalities, I think issuance of good safety gear and pressure from the riding NCOs to wear that gear would be helpful. Also, have some track days at nearby facilities, offer some service only time, this will allow safer venting of steam.

Sadly though, experience tells me that the command will probably outlaw bikes or just make the penalties stiffer thus forcing members to vent elsewhere. rather than solve or direct the need for excitement, they tend to just divert it.

Our first sergeant used to tell us NCO's that bored privates do dumb things, they key is to keep them from being bored.

AndrewM87

Adrenaline injections and let them loose in the running of the bulls!

The req for anyone in my unit to ride is all gear all the time (Think it is for all military), but I'm not sure if it is strictly enforced. On base it is, but off not so much I don't think or if any of the higher ups even notice.

Bikejunky

Interesting how they single out motorcycles, I have a friend stationed in @ Fort Bragg in N.C. and for every month they can go without having a vehicle fatality they get an extra vacation day for the year, he said they almost never get the extra vacation day because some one always gets killed in a cage threw the coarse of the month.

psycon

Pepper Tree Motorcycle Club, 1913.

psycon

What I find interesting is the military inserting itself in personal lives. Is this uncommon or are there other aspects that you have to follow when you're in the military, but on personal time. Or is there personal time when you're in the military?

whitedevil

They have a lot of Over Your Head pull in personal lives. Not sure how bad now a days, but they did have a lot of say of what you did in your personal life and how.

shadow d hedgehog

Nada, Zip, None! When on active duty you are subject to military law 24/7 on base and off. Hence you can be charged by the militray for DUI if out in the town. As an NCO and first line supervisor, I had to conduct "health and welfare" checks on one of my troops that was not caring for his family even though he lived off post. Same reason they can strip weekends and only have to give you 4 hours of rest in peacetime. Wartime or deployment, forget it, we used to run 36 hours straight. They allow vacation and time off duty, but you are still accountable for your actions.

The guard and reserves are a bit different, while on duty and during their two weeks they are under military law, but not during the rest of the month. They may still face adverse actions, but not officially charged under military regulation.

Example, Should Katnip's run in with the Kuna police last night turned into a DUI, she may have been kicked out of the guard but if it happened tomorrow while she is in drill status, she could, although unlikely, face a courts martial and given prison time by the military.

Essentially, when you volunteer to serve, you give up your freedom so that others may have theirs.

psycon

Ah, well, that makes sense.

AndrewM87

Brian pretty much summed it up. Haha.

Arwen

It's about maintaining the image of the armed forces as responsible, capable adults, and about the military protecting its investment in its people (lots & lots of $$ in training, morale, safety for others, etc.).

There's a lot of public pressure on the military, too. For example: A marine gets back from Iraq, drops into major depression, and ends up seriously hurting somebody - the public wants to know why the military didn't know this was going to happen & why it didn't provide the pro-active service of making sure that his family life and his mental health was OK. In other words, the action of the marine gets blamed on what the military "did" to him. In this case, the Marines know what type of effects war has on their men/women, and the Marines offer help for them in dealing with it – meaning, the Marines are “messing” with his personal life.

People gripe about how the military controls their entire life, but what’s going on at the home front affects life at work, too. If hubby comes home & discovers Jody in his house, he’s upset, depressed, unstable – this can translate into problems with his job performance (and when you’re dealing with weapons, national security, etc. this is a big deal), his safety, and the safety of those around him. The military HAS to care about the member’s personal life. Drinking problems (DUIs, Katnip ) off the job cause the same type of problems. $$ problems on the home front can affect security at work – theft, etc.

The military wants to retain their investment in training and expertise. This affects what type of activities they want their people to be involved in outside of work. A few years ago, I wanted to go skydiving but Steve needed to get permission from his command – so we just never did it.

I have to say though, that having been married to my hubby through 9 years of active duty Navy and 2 years of Navy Reserve (here in Idaho), the way things are handled at Gowen are waaaaayyy more lax than at any of the active duty bases we’ve been stationed at or visited.

OK - I'm done

Zed6E

Shadow, half truths are one of the biggest problems the military ever faced.
Jail house law/ tradition is what you post refers to. These things could have been true back in the 70's but the military of today bears no resemblance to this. you are subject to UCMj only if the SOFA agreement states that. most typically the host country or State has first crack at you. if they pass then the military has the option to hammer you, however if there was not sufficient evidence for the civialians the military will usually pass and simply hammer you with UCMJ ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING. It is a catch all charge for which there is virtually no defense.

"As an NCO and first line supervisor, I had to conduct "health and welfare" checks on one of my troops that was not caring for his family even though he lived off post." Lies..damn lies, you as a NCO have no authority to enter private property off post. We had an NCO lose his head to a shot gun blast like that, he tried to force the issue, the wife shot him dead...then sued the Army for the traumatic experiance of having to kill him.

"Same reason they can strip weekends and only have to give you 4 hours of rest in peacetime. Wartime or deployment, forget it, we used to run 36 hours straight."
Half truth...4 hours every 24 must be allowed for sleep ( in combat conditions), however running troops in this method degrades combat performance. Only a piss poor leader would compromise his mission by depleteing his men( or Women) thus. The chance of losing one of your people due to limited concentration after 36 hours straight increases 10 fold for every hour you go beyond that. I doubt any mission beyond search and rescue could have that kind of importance. So no , we never run soldier to the limit of the regs, its self defeating. Oh and as I was leaving Active duty that number had changed to 6 out of 24 for down time, contributes to a reduction in PTSD.

Arwen,
"It's about maintaining the image of the armed forces as responsible, capable adults, and about the military protecting its investment in its people (lots & lots of $$ in training, morale, safety for others, etc.)."
I honestly wish that was true, but unfortuantely its not. Most leaders could care less about the troops, they are simply symbols on a map. pawns to be moved for the leader to accomplish his mission, the reason we were always drilled with the motto "mission first". The mission is the most important aspect of military operations, however every time you lose assets you reduce your projected military force, so yes they care about troops, not just way they present it to the media. Oh and by the way, how much does it cost to train a troop? well that depends on his skill. I can train 11 and 13 series troops for less than 12 grand each. They are simply meat shields, a spoon...costs 8 grand ( hand him a pot and some water...follow the recipe dude).

Sorry for the rant all, just my experiance in the military is from a much different perspective than those looking in from the outside and different from those who served at battalion level or lower. I spent most of my career from the time I made E5 working at brigade level or higher, in fact at E 6 I was considered a division asset. I have spent years in command centers where decisions of life and death were made by looking at the dots. While I never had to make those decisions I do not even those who were forced to make them. So all in all its not about really caring...its about making the American People believe that they do.

Oh and that guy in the interview( i havent watched so forgive if offbase), is he actually a commander of anything, or has he been stuck off in a dead in job to quietly retire since he was passed over for promotion? Just a thought.

Zed

Arwen

Hmmm.... I think we're looking at differences between the branches, too. A Navy MM responsible for the nuclear reactor on a fast attack submarine is certainly not considered to be a meat shield

psycon

Seems obvious to me. Get them in Stars or MSF and an ART or a trackday.

shadow d hedgehog

What was your MOS?

Please take no offence to this as I am not calling you out, but life might have been that cut and dry up in HQ land Sarge.

But those of us chilling inside our M1s didn't always have those luxuries. We napped when we could which sometimes was not very often. Not like we could hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign off our turret in the middle of a battle when our "madatory" 4 hour sleep time came. When in movement, which was darn near always, Driver drove, the gunner scanned, the loader (me) had anti-air craft watch, and TC kept us on mission. Afterall, our primary duty was to "engage the enemy and destroy them."

We could catnap when in defensive positions but maint was usually needed so that is when we did that. We were lucky to get showers once a week and meals were always cold.

Some of us had different jobs/lifes in the Army I guess.

Now back OT...

I wonder if the other branches are seeing the same thing? We didn't have too many bikers around when I was in, I didn't ride much at any rate, but we did have quite a few hang on the drag strip with hot rods and euro-sports.

Idaho Wolverine

WOW. Everyone's military experiance will differ wont it??

The current Air Force policy on bikes are pretty reasonable. You WILL wear your protective gear, or YOU WILL pay your medical bills if you get hurt on your bike. You will also attend a certified training course, on duity time, not your own, and the Air Force pays for it. How can you bich about that?

Think about this. You all have probably heard of someone forgeting to put there side stand down and fall over with there bike.
At that hight, you could, possibly, hit your head and get a mild concusion if not wearing a helmet and be out of work for however long.
Look at Ben Rothlesburger last year. He was only going around 35 mph when someone turned left when comming in his direction and he got pretty screw'd up. No helmet. If he were wearing an average helmet, he might have been able to play football alot sooner. But he was not. And he was out of "work" for a good bit of time.

So you CAN NOT say you do not have a choice about what you do on your bike in the Air Force.
You do not have to wear anything. I am one of the very few MSF guys at Mountain Home AFB and see guys now and then not wearing there stuff. All I can do is shake my head and say to myself "Nice $12,000 bike and cant buy a $200 helmet"

BUT if you get hurt and are not wearing proper gear, I hope you have plenty of money. And I hope you are OK, by the way.

Wear your gear; dont drink and ride. So easy a caveman can do it