RavenR1

I'm looking at a 2004 Yamaha YZ450F, but don't know much about dirt bikes and was hoping to solicit some input from you guys before I decide to go forward with the purchase.

I'm looking for a reliable four stroke that doesn't require constant maintenance. One with enough power to keep up with the pack on the track, but still be flexible enough to just putt (sp?) around the trails in the desert.

Any issues with the YZF or four strokes in general? Does routine maintenance/general repairs cost more than two strokes? Required more often?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Exitwounds

From what I understand, Yamaha builds really good dirt bikes.

450 is a huge dirt bike, you can more than keep up on that.

theduckllr

The 426 was a notorious hard starter that wasn't fixed until the 450 came out. 4 strokes require more maintenance then 2 stroker brethren. As for putt putting on a 450 race bike. Yeah, have fun with that! You just might find your putt putting bliss as you wheelie across the desert.

r1bran

Awesome Fukn bike. Wouldnt reccomend anything over it. If you wanna putt around and take in some scenery its fine for that. If you wanna ring it by its neck, expect it to recipricate. Bike is a weapon. All the power you could need on tap. Dont need it at the moment dont use it. Pretty straight forward. This thread mirrors the countless threads about 1000cc bikes for people that dont ride hard. Same outcome. Most like to have the power and not always using it. It is a 4 stroke so you wont have the issues that a 2 stroke may give you if your not ridin it hard all the time. Buy it and dont look back.

Hozhead

In my opinion, the bike you're looking for is the WR250F.
Wide ratio transmission for the 'putt putting', not to mention being able to grunt up a fair amount of hills.
Heavier flywheel than a YZ which means it won't rev quite as fast but is also a lot less likely to stall (the extra weight helps the motor keep momentum).
If you haven't ridden dirt bikes, a 250 will definitely be plenty of power and there's no reason you won't keep up with others unless they're going full out all of the time and, if you haven't ridden dirt before, you shouldn't be doing anyway.

I have a 2000 WR400F and its been a great dirt bike but I do wish I had a WR250F instead because I don't go often enough to be really good and would prefer to have something a bit less likely to toss me off if my wrist gets ahead of my brain.
I bought the 400 to use as a supermoto and it did GREAT for that purpose for a bit over a year but its back to dirt duty and is more than I need (and I weigh 200 lbs).

Idaho Wolverine

My 2003 YZ450F was quite a monster. I owned it for two years. I checked the valves 4 times, every time they were fine. No other maint besides oil change and that is easy too.

I do have to say the reason I sold it was because when I was really trying to go fast, it did more of what it wanted and less of what I wanted.

I sold it, bought a YZ250F and I am much faster on it, even though the 450 had more power. But that is me. You may be the type that can wrangle that monster of a bike. I know my limitations and I am faster on the 250.

Good luck, it is a bad a$$ bike!

IDAHOBALLER

I have owned a YZ450f, and they are exelent bikes. Mine was an 08 which is a bit different but I have ridden all yammy 400cc+ YZF's. Personally I wouldnt own a steel framed YZ450f for one reason, it has a 4 speed transmission. The 4 spd works fine on a track but for riding everywhere I feel it makes for too tall of a 1st gear and too short of a high gear. Reliability wise it should be solid as a rock. The Yammy 4 strokes have more than proven them selves for being reliable regardless of the displacement.

I think you should check out a later model YZ250. They are the wonder bike IMO for do it all stuff. It lugs better than the 450 of mine did and has more than enough power ready for anything you throw at it. It is lighter and better handling than a 250f with all the snap of a 450. All while needing a fraction of the maintnance requirements. Change the tranny fuild every ferw rides and keep an eye on the air filter and your good to go. It is also nice to be able to do a top end for under $200 and less than a couple hours time. The only benefits I see to a 450 over a 250 smoker is the better high speed stability, more torque for sandy/loamy soil, and the effortless butter smooth wheelies... Other than that I say go 2t all the way!

stubby

I gotta agree with Hoz and Idahoballer here. If you are new to bikes then I wouldn't recommend a 450. On the 2smoker you won't have instant power, which will teach you how to be smooth while staying in your power band. You won't have the engine braking, so you will learn how to brake with more control. And rebuilding a 2 smoker is much cheaper. There are pros and cons to the the 4 or 2 stroke battle for each side but check out the 2 smokers also as they can teach you alot. Also like Dave mentioned the wide ratio tranny might be better. My KTM has a wide ratio, and its fun as hell and is rather tame for a 250 2smoker. Just remember the smaller the bike the faster you will learn control, cornering, braking and soon keep up with the fast guys.

I guess the better question would be what are you riding capabilities in the dirt? By track what type of track - single track, mx track, flat track, supermoto?

IDAHOBALLER

I rode 4 strokes exclusively for years, but now that I am on a 2 stroker I am having more fun than ever. I love how my two strokes make me learn to ride a dirtbike chassis/powerband with precision and intelegence/technique, where my 450 taught me how to ride a lazy fat torque curve and bomb the outside line. I will be the first to admit that my lap times are probably faster on a 4 stroke mx bike, but I can honestly say that my adrenaline fed grin is MUCH bigger on the 2 stroke all day long.

For me if I was good enough to win mx races (and was competetively racing) I would likely be on a 450 as their advantages outweigh the negatives when it comes to mx racing at a high level, but for what I do (mix of off road, dunes, and fast "c" to slow "b" level mx/sx track riding) the 2 stroker just seems to work better all around and definately is beneficial in terms of cost to operate and maintain in the long run.

As of now for me it is all about the fun factor and based on that I choose to be a SMOKER..... long live the 2 stroke.... brrRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPP!

turbolq4

when that 4 stroke drops a valve and grenades the motor, you get a sweet 2000+ repair bill

if you manage to ride a two stroke to destruction, you can replace the crank and entire top end for under 500.

i am a little biased, but the numbers dont lie

r1bran

2 STROKES!!!

RavenR1

I appreciate everyone's input on this. I've been riding street bikes since I was a kid and feel I can hold my own on the pavement. However, when it comes to dirt bikes I have had limited exposure; mostly down south of the prison. Even then, I was never any good at it. I have never been on a track (mx, flat, supermoto or otherwise) and doubt I ever will, but still wanted something that would keep up in the event I later changed my mind.

Ideally I was looking for a four stroke 250 simply because I didn't think I needed any more power than that and didn't want to deal with the smoke or having to mix the gas (what can I say...I'm lazy). But I came across this 2004 YZ450F at a very attractive price and ended up purchasing it this morning (see pics).

Before I signed on the dotted line I contacted the mechanic at the shop that recently serviced the bike. He indicated they just performed a valve job on the bike a month prior and felt it had a very strong motor.

I'm looking forward to taking it out this weekend and getting a feel for it even though I know I will probably be "that guy" who's riding too slow or not doing something right. However, it will still be fun and hopefully I'll pick it up relatively quick.

Once I get a chance to play around on it a few times and start to feel a little more comfortable I will see if you guys don't mind if I tag along on a few of your rides.

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stubby

Will be playing this weekend. Come out and play - it doesn't matter how good you are or not, hell we let WD ride with us. Its kind of sad when you can do a stoppie while passing him and it still takes him 10 minutes to catch up

Seriously though, come out and play. I'm still learning my dirt bike and others give me pointers to help out the learning curve. Its all about having fun anyhow.

whitedevil

Just as Stubby said, TRUE, every word of it.

hellfire24

If you want a 4 stroke and plan to use it i say go with a newer model.. If you have never riden i do not suggest starting out on a 450.. learn to use the power of a 250 first then bump up.. I ride a 250f and i find myself in 5 gear all the time so i need to switch but to each his own.. I know liteone has a 450 and i dont belive he can use all that power.. hell no one can really unless your name is chad reed.. WD thinks he needs a bigger bike but i think a better tuned bike is what he needs.. not saying that in a bad way don fyi! Oh and 4 strokes are so not cheap to maintain at all.. ask anyone who rides alot.. yamahas are great bikes and i have never had a serious issue other than starting but that problem was fixed.. Take what you will from this and any questions, help, or just want to go ride feel free to hit me up.. In the end its all about your ability and how far your going to go with it..

whitedevil

Nothing you said towards me in that do I take bad, just misunderstood lol. I don't "need" a 450, I think I "want" a 450. Big difference and for several reasons that I want a 450. But I don't have to have it, nor am I actively looking at the moment. I love my 250.

As for the cost, oh yea, you should change your oil and filters a lot more often, depending on how long of a ride you go on, every 3-5 rides. Idahoballer had a good write up once in another thread that actually went into the big cost difference! I would not suggest anyone to learn on a 450 though, if nothing else, the throttle is very very wicked, you hit whoops or a good bump, tap the throttle on accident and the mule will buck you off. No Pun intended Buck.

Liteone using the full 450, I don't think its the matter of using the full 450, but he was starting to ring that 250's neck, and he handles the 450 quite well and has been growing into it. For anyone to say they use the 450 to it's fullest is either that damn good or a freakin liar! LMAO

hellfire24

PRICE CHECK- keep in mind i ride every weekend and race
Tires front and back Dunlop mx51 150$-160$ change every 5 hard rides
or 2 maybe 3 races
MB1 suspension 890.00 with discount
asv levers 150$
radiator guards the nice ones 120$
quick shot 3 for carb 180$
dyno jet carb kit 50$
oil and filter change E/month 20$-30$
graphics and plastics kit 200$ changed every year
uni air filter 60$
grips 15$ changed all the time
sprockets 50$-150$
chain 40$-70$
Gear- some of this is sponsored FYI

One Industries full gear setup,jersey pants gloves helmet 240$ normal 540$
Gearne Boots sg12 356$ normal 500$

Dont forget gas and food for the day.. a truck or trailer.. damn the more i go on the more it makes me sick

this list does not include hospital visits! Or surgery like a few of you "WD" Had to fall out of the trailer or broken parts that will break. it happens
Am i missing anything? or priced wrong?

stubby

You forgot the basic maintenance stuff like:
Spark plugs
chain cleaner
chain lube
tubes
grease
brake pads
clutch cables (unless we just duct tape them)
fork seals, and oil
brake fluid
filter cleaner, grease, air filter oil

hellfire24

well sometimes a hour before your race ducktape is the only option you got lol

stubby

haha, it worked so that is all that matters

hellfire24

true that

turbolq4

one clapped out CR500R........priceless

Bikejunky

Not going to lie, I didn't read threw the hole thread to see what people have wrote but 04 was a bad year for Honda and Yamaha, they both had valve problems that year, my neighbor had to redo his and Lee with GB creations told me the same thing.

IDAHOBALLER

The yamaha YZf's have never had any specefic year that had valve issues. They had a few issues with the manual decompression setup (depending on the cam setup) before they were 450's but that is it. The yammy big bore engine already had 4 years of development under its belt by 04. The issues with the steely framed YZF's were that they were kinda top heavy feeling and were not the best handling bikes in the tight stuff. The honda consistantly had valve/valve seat problems from 02 to 05 but was supposedly fixed in 06. As of 04 the honda was the better chassis package by far, but the yammy had the more solid engine by far.

IDAHOBALLER

Here is what I wrote on the other thread that WD mentioned.

And I say 2 strokes are cheaper because first off they are cheaper to buy, but where the real benefit comes from is long term maintnance. With a new high tech 4 stroke (especially 250f's) you have to change the engine oil and filter a lot (my 450 only holds 1.05qt of oil changed every 1-3 rides!) , where as the smoker only has tranny fluid to change every 5-10 rides (depending on how hard you ride). Also when it comes time to do a rebuild the 2 stroke is BY FAR cheaper. For under $200 you can do a total top end job on the smoker, where as the last 450 piston (custom CP piston) that I bought was $270, and then you have to get gaskets, cam chain, valve tappet shims, etc... You will end up spending more than double to do a 4stroke top end versus the 2 stroke.

The prices seperated themselves even further when you get farther into the engines than that. Think about it like this. The last 450 engine I build I had at least $3000 into it just to make around 60hp at the ground and it was a stock bore engine. The race motor I am going to build for my 250 is going to be about $800-$1000 total (including exhaust system, carburator mods, reeds, ignition etc...),
which will be a fully built 265cc big bore engine that should make around 52-55hp at the ground. The engine I want to build for my 500 is going to be just shy of $2000 but it will be making close to 80hp N/A and about 95+ on spray...

The rest of the maintnance such as chassis/linkage greasing, shock/fork rebuilds, tires, air filters, general wear and tear, etc... are all the same reguardless of motor type.

Since I originally posted this I have sold my 08 YZ450f and have purchased an 06 YZ250 and a 2000 CR500R to replace it with. And I still agree with what I originally posted. My 2 strokes are definately cheaper to operate and maintain. They are also alot simpler and physically easier to work on. I wouldnt even consider a 4 stroke MX bike again for myself as of now. I am totally addicted to the premix thing!

IDAHOBALLER

Hey man, he doesnt have a 500, and CR500's kick so much azz!

THUMPER

here are the biggest differances.

2 strokes use more gas as well as the mixing oil can be expensive, i used klotz at $10 a qrt. if your like me and ride pinned out all the time, you will be replacing the top end ( piston and rings in a 2 stroke) ever 6 months or so.

4 strokes use less gas, the pistons last lots longer so you save money there.. but the valves need to be adjusted every 10 riding hours or so. and if you need to replace the top end in a 4 stroke your looking at a much bigger price tag for parts...

so either way... its expensive, its either gonna be every 6 months or once a year

IDAHOBALLER

Unless you are riding a 2 stroke that is bigger than a 300 the fuel consumption per performance level is actually pretty close. A 250 smoker will get about 2mpg less than a 450 and are both close to each other in terms of outright performance. My 250 has a 2.2 gal tank and my 450 had a 1.9 gal tank, but both bikes would go almost identicle distance on a tank which is around 55 miles. The 500 will also go about 55 miles but has a 2.9 gal tank. All 3 are stock tanks. 125/144's and 250f's are similar in fuel consumption when compared against each other as the bigger bikes are. The smoker is slightly worse but has a slightly bigger fuel tank to make up for it. If you talk about fuel consumption per cc the 4t is way better, but I feel it is better to catagorize the bikes in this instance based on their performance level instead of by cc's alone.

And as for the oil, I too use Klotz stuff but I buy it by the gallon which is a little bit cheaper than in liters. I feel that price per hour of run time wise the price of the 4 stroke engine oil and the premix oil pretty much cancel each other out. But you can't forget about the 4 stroke oil filters and the 2 stroke tranny fluid which also pretty much cancel each other out in the long run unless you run staniless steel reusable filters in the 4 stroker which last for ever and just need to be cleaned each time you change the oil.

So it still pretty much boils down to engine related parts IMO. Engine parts are always way cheaper for the smokers. $200-300 for a nice PWK 2t carb vs. $600+ for an FCR for the stroker. Around $300-350 for a complete 2t exhaust system vs. the around $500 to $1500+ for a 4 stroke exhaust. 2t top end for $200 vs. 4t at almost double that or more. On the 2t you never have to worry about any of the valve train related stuff which is all expensive.

And then think about modding them. A good port job and a pipe on the smoker can make as much of a difference in one step as an exhaust, a set of cams, high compression piston and a good port job possibly with oversize valves on a 4 stroker.

And again if you catagorize the bikes based on their performance level I feel that they are on par with each other in terms of longevity. You can easily put 50hours on a 450 4t or 250 2t top end and be fine, but a pro mx dude could wear either tope end out in less than 20-30hours for sure. Same goes for 125's and 250f's. I have seen plenty of both with more than 40hours on top ends that still ran great, but I have seen pros wear out top ends on both machines in less than 10-15 hours of track time. I think this all depends on how the bike is ridden and maintained more than its size does.

And when you get to higher power engines for powersport vehicles 2 strokes are far more reliable than 4 strokes. Look at mountain sleds and you will see what I mean. Compare the catastrophe rates of turboed and/or nitroused 300-400+hp 2t sleds to 4 stroke turboed and/or nitroused 300-400+hp sleds. And also look at how much it cost to build each style engine to that level.

Plain and simple 2 strokes OWN the term "bang for the buck". Modern 4 strokes are awesome too just too spendy for me right now. If money was no object I would have a 450 in my collection now too! They are way badazz bikes for sure! I enjoyed mine VERY much. Most of the time I like my smokers better, but every now and again I wish I still had the 450. It was a great do it all bike. Tons of Power and torque always on tap and easile accessable... 450s are kindof like cheating. The work so well, just stick it 3rd and wheelie you way to anywhere!

Sorry for the novel...

hellfire24

Valves need adjusted every 10 riding hours Its Been two years and my valves are still good.. never been adjusted but i do check them.. All i can say is since i moved to a 4 stroke i will never bump back down unless i do freestyle... Everyone keeps talking about replacing pistons and redoing the head.. If you ride your bike on a regular basis your not going to have the big issues like the people who let there bikes sit in the garage weeks at a time..